Discussion with an Acupuncture Supporter

Me:
Acupuncture is only a Placebo.

Him:
Its not placebo...acupuncture works by triggering responses in the nervous system. For example, the use of acupuncture as a pain reliever involves affecting key nerve junctions that trigger the release of endorphins. The notion that all Eastern medicine and homeopathy is "placebo" or "faith based" is an errant one.

Me:
Says your acupuncturist?... Until it can be shown to have demonstrable benefits while under controlled scientific testing using the proper scientific method, performed by scientists other than acupuncturists (who are too invested to be objective) then it's just "Crap"

Him:
And scientists paid by pharmaceutical companies *aren't* too invested to be objective? And drugs that have more "side effects" than they treat aren't "Crap"? What I know comes from an understanding of neurology and nutrition, not on "whatever the acupuncturist says". Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it faith based dogma.

Me:
Oh no! Here comes the "Big Pharma" conspiracy that's out to get the little man and his ancient eastern medicine!... Even if you don't trust the other scientists, it's still obvious that any internal studies done by acupuncturists are extremely flawed. They do not follow the scientific method and they fudge their results. Sure, normal scientists fudge their results too, but the rest of the scientific community finds out by doing their own tests and then disputes the rogue scientist. In acupuncture, they don't retest and check the other guy's findings. They just accept them and quote them anytime someone questions their methods. Then when you point out the obvious flaws they quote some regular scientist who fudged his results, which I just explained, and that still doesn't make them right. It only makes them just as bad.

Also, I never said it was faith based dogma. Aaron [an earlier commenter] said it was a placebo effect, which in real tests, that's all it is shown to be. The placebo effect is not "faith based"... It's just wishful thinking of a desperate subconscious. the sort of neurology that acupuncture is based on is the same sort of neurology that Chiropractic medicine is based on. It's crap. Too many acupuncture and chiropractic universities have to establish their own neurology department so that they don't have to require their students to go to a real neurology professor, who would dispute their crap science and philosophy. I know, there's Parker Chiropractic University here in Dallas, and they have acupuncture and neurology sub-studies. The main Dallas medical center ( group of over 200 medical professionals, hospitals and care centers) wouldn't let them open their university within range of the medical center because it would appear as though Chiropractic medicine and acupuncture were legitimate sciences. They had to open their university on the shitty property across the highway.

I dated a student from the Chiropractic university a while back. She was 3 weeks from graduating and moving to Mexico to open a clinic for the poor. (Sounds well intentioned) But when I questioned her on her science it turned out she knew less about science than me, and my medical training only came from the US Army! I'm trained in infectious diseases, diagnostics, trauma, battlefield surgery and all the goodies! But I still understood science better than the girl who had been training non-stop for seven years! She'd been in Chiropractic/Acupuncture college longer than I had been in the Army, and medical training was only a secondary directive for me! Yet I still schooled her!

Tell me why acupuncture shows reasonable benefits equal to that of a placebo in all tests, even those tests where the acupuncture procedure was done by a janitor? Turns out people feel better no matter where you stick the needle, or toothpick. (which is all they'd allow the janitor to use) It doesn't matter where the needle goes! It doesn't matter what the needle has on it! It doesn't matter whether it's a needle at all! And it doesn't matter whether it's an acupuncture professional or a janitor.

Acupuncture is a fancy eastern philosophy with no scientific use other than psychological studies on what makes people think they're better when they're not.

Him:
Its obvious you have very strong opinions. Seeing as I have neither the obligation nor the desire to correct your arrogantly ignorant assumptions about things which you falsely feel to hold so firmly within your "superior" grasp, I hereby leave you to your blissful state of ignorance. Good day.

Me:
Who's being arrogant? How do you know I'm false? These are not issues for "strong opinions" they are issues for facts. Where are yours? If you have them, then show them. If you assume that my strong opinions make me unable to reason then you're wrong. I'm open to having my mind changed, but it's going to take much more than asserting that I'm arrogant. It's going to take some facts. So you can leave and that will only prove you are either unwilling to support the things you feel strong about, or unable. And given that there is no evidence to support acupuncture, then we'll have to conclude that you are unable. And then leaving is just a form of willful ignorance on your part. Sounds a lot like the theistic argument of... "I'm leaving because you just don't understand."

PS: If any further messages come from "HIM" I will be sure to post those as well. So be sure to check in.